Warning: this was typed while the debate was being broadcasted live so there are bits missing and possible inaccuracies. Also lots of spelling and grammatical mistakes.

Transcript of round 2: Mousa vs Fotouh Debate #monazarat

First round can be found here

AF: Abdel monem abou el-Fotoh
AM: Amr Moussa

Moderator: Youssri Fouda

Y: I'd like to greet both of them again .. my role is to ask questions only. I have one comment you shouldn't include questions in your comments.

AM objects

Y: first qestion complete 1. vote for me because... 2. dont vote for him ebcause ...

AF: I say vote for me because i call for unity between liberals, copts and islmaists and this is a reflection of the jan 25 unity. we can't build a country wihtout unity and this has to be without respect to religion or political position .. i have succeeded in this to some extent despite what others may not understand (refering to AM).. i say we have to vote for those who stood by the revolution and not agaisnt it

AM: I call citizens to vote for me because i was tested in different positions and i served in the best way .. egypt needs a man who understands the political context in the region and intenrationally .. such things need expert .. the country is in a very dangerous position .. it's in diffult stutiona and needs a capacity that is experienced .. unity is important but unity for the sake of unity .. we should look for the countries benefit in security, development .. these all needs a man of experience

Y: Your salary and privliges as a president and how you are going to

AF: I served my state for 42 years and i didn't ask for a return for this public service and the presidential palaces should be public resource .. stealing the millions and billions of the public resources should never happen again .. we were in gaza we helped people there we helped people in upper egypt with being targetted and imprisoned we did this without looking for privelages .. the rest of my life is for this country and for what it has given me .. we need to .. gas is exported to israel below prices and citizen can't find butane

Y: Your salary and privliges as a president and how you are going to deal with presidential palaces and seperate between your money and that of the countyr

AM: there is a law governening this .. i will donate part of my salary to the civil society and charity .. the palaces are owned by the state and the people has to visit such places .. these are things we have to keep in every country governening takes place from powerful wealthy institutions .. i will continue to live in my home and will go to my office in the president of egypt's office .. egypt is a great country we will not entertain thoughts that such resources have no place but it's something appropriate and is the contries image.

Y: Please give us a report on your financial situation and health

AF: I am a retired doctor and my income is around 10,000 EGP a month from several inputs .. my health situation is fine thank god .. i only have diabetes and slight hypertension from mubarak prisons .. i have a report for my health conditon from a hospital near home [shows us a paper] and this is my financial report [shows us another document]

Y: Same question

AM: i reported my income to the HEC, land, my house in tagamu and my flat which i will return too after office. Time will come to say i have to show everyone this is my income and people has to know after 4 years .. My health is fine hamdullelah i wanted this bench to be wood but I can give a report about this .. i'd like to ask AF asked about the health situation of candidates ..this caused confusion and made some candidate angry [AF answered and side discussion]

Y:

AF: in the first round AM appeared as if he was an opponent to mubarak despite being him and his men were not more that secertary to the president .. egypt's role in africa decreased, arab role as well.. i want to hear one sentence that AM said in opposition to mubarak's regime

AM: I will start with what the morshed el 3am of MB said about me .. he appreciated my work and the public support is due to this .. my disagreement between me and the head of state was something that was mentioned by lots of people .. as for the role of egypt in africa this isn't true ask people we entered the COMESA during my time and for the relationship with the arab world it was a special relationship at that time .. and it was a strong when i was minister including the islamic relationships as well .. i met the iranian foreign minister and these attacks are untrue.

Y: No question by AM .. 1 minute

AM: I know that AF said yes to consitutinoal amendments .. i don't understand when he joined the revoltuion when all the revolutionary forces said no and those who understand what those ammendments were about ... i know that dr AF participated in founding the jamaa3a islamia which killed around 1000 people .. how is he living with this

AF: the majority of people said yes .. he wasn't living here .. 70% said yes and we shouldn't disrespect the choice of the majority .. this is the old mentality .. the majority may say something against my position but i have to respect that this is the democracy we are heading to .. as for establishing the islamic movement in 70s and i am proud of it .. is a peaceful till now movement .. the violence was mubarak's regime that AM was part of it as for those who left the movement and committed violence they are resposible for themselves.

Y: would you appoint those who worked with mubarak in any position?

AF: those who worked with mubarak are two types .. those who were close to him like ministres, head of parliament .. were people who defended this regime and i won't allow for this to happen as for the technocrates who worked in instutions these are honorable egyptians who served the country and weren't known of supporting the regime and there is no evidence against them .. they weren't the regime's men and weren't the machinery of that regime but htye served the state .. we can benefit from them. We can't say those who are close to mubarak are similar to those who weren't our terms should be accurate.

AM: Certainly not the group that fell in 11 feb .. those accused and those suspected are certainly not an option .. but hte measure has to be the expertise and efficiency is the key.. we paid the price in the past of broad exclusion .. so if he is a technocrat or a politican .. the door isn't closed but has rules and these rules are according to the jan 25 revolution

Y: What's your plan to bring back security and will protect gen. freedoms

AF: Interior ministry needs restructuring .. some generals who are close to mubarak didn't do their job .. there are some honorables there who ware doing their job .. in the first 3 (or 6) month we have a plan to restructure it including beaurcratic processes .. we will do this by improving pay, health care including, we need to graduate more police officers from the academy .. human rights has to be taught to police officers so the human dignity is respected .. the police station has to be a safe place and not fearful

AM: we have to seperate between restructuring and .. police is something very critical and we have to deal with this in the first 100 days .. i see AF using my terms like 100 days and 2nd republic... ministr of interior is starting to control the situation but more needs to be done .. the president has to give clear orders that the police servce the public .. we have to rehabilitate police stations .. there are several ones that were burnt .. the syllabuses of the police academy has to include human rights.

Y: how are you going to deal with the legal status of the MB and the establishing religious based parties and how wil you protect minorities and freedoms ..

AF: MB will don't have any sepcial situation and has to function as any NGO and no one has to function outside the law. As for the religious parties .. i am against this regarding hte membership should be open for all as for parties that respect the religious framework (marge3ya) i respect that .. as for the minorities there are no minirities i am against this term .. no descrimination and all citizens are equal infront of the law.

AM: The MB isn't banned but not yet religious .. it's an important group and they can easily become legal. as for the religious parties the general principles of the thought is islamic that is fine but if its specific goals are religious and may cause a rift between the people of egypt .. the religious parties need clarification .. we are in a process of rebuilding and reshaping egypt. [super vague answer]

Y:

AF: Still AM wants to stand agaisnt the majority of people .. when he accuses FJP and noor of being religious parties .. is he going to start a war against them when he becomes president? There is the wasat party as well the majority chose parties with a religious background but not religious parties. (he clarifies his concept of religious party being one restricted to members)

AM: reads a quote from sheikh sharawy .. "i am a muslim before being a member of any religious party" he identified the danger of religious parties .. I will sit down and talk with FJP but for religious parties this is something else .. there are others who want to establish religious parties that will divide the country .. the decision is for the votes in the end but the point i am talking about is religious parties that have a clearly religious stance.. we want the country to progress but spending time in certain limits and constraints this is what i am talking about

Y:

AM: I noticed confusion by AF on foreign policy in addition to other contradiction .. i wasn't the foreign minister of egypt when the war on iraq started and i condemned it .. i was in the arab league and called all the leaders to discussion .. this is injustice to my history

AF: when i talked about the weak role of the foreign ministry and arab league .. what were the results when 1 million iraqis died and all the arab countries stood by and watched .. what were the results of those african tours .. in the end we have problems with nile basin countries ..we are now isolate from africa due mubarak's weak foreign minister .. if i was in this position i would have resigned immediately .. sadat sold the nation in camp david .. mohamed ibrahinm kamel resigned .. these are the positions that one should takes .. the results are disappointing.

Transcript of round 2: Mousa vs Fotouh Debate #monazarat

AF: Abdel monem abou el-Fotoh
AM: Amr Moussa

Moderator: Youssri Fouda

Y: I'd like to greet both of them again .. my role is to ask questions only. I have one comment you shouldn't include questions in your comments.

AM objects

Y: first qestion complete 1. vote for me because... 2. dont vote for him ebcause ...

AF: I say vote for me because i call for unity between liberals, copts and islmaists and this is a reflection of the jan 25 unity. we can't build a country wihtout unity and this has to be without respect to religion or political position .. i have succeeded in this to some extent despite what others may not understand (refering to AM).. i say we have to vote for those who stood by the revolution and not agaisnt it

AM: I call citizens to vote for me because i was tested in different positions and i served in the best way .. egypt needs a man who understands the political context in the region and intenrationally .. such things need expert .. the country is in a very dangerous position .. it's in diffult stutiona and needs a capacity that is experienced .. unity is important but unity for the sake of unity .. we should look for the countries benefit in security, development .. these all needs a man of experience

Y: Your salary and privliges as a president and how you are going to

AF: I served my state for 42 years and i didn't ask for a return for this public service and the presidential palaces should be public resource .. stealing the millions and billions of the public resources should never happen again .. we were in gaza we helped people there we helped people in upper egypt with being targetted and imprisoned we did this without looking for privelages .. the rest of my life is for this country and for what it has given me .. we need to .. gas is exported to israel below prices and citizen can't find butane

Y: Your salary and privliges as a president and how you are going to deal with presidential palaces and seperate between your money and that of the countyr

AM: there is a law governening this .. i will donate part of my salary to the civil society and charity .. the palaces are owned by the state and the people has to visit such places .. these are things we have to keep in every country governening takes place from powerful wealthy institutions .. i will continue to live in my home and will go to my office in the president of egypt's office .. egypt is a great country we will not entertain thoughts that such resources have no place but it's something appropriate and is the contries image.

Y: Please give us a report on your financial situation and health

AF: I am a retired doctor and my income is around 10,000 EGP a month from several inputs .. my health situation is fine thank god .. i only have diabetes and slight hypertension from mubarak prisons .. i have a report for my health conditon from a hospital near home [shows us a paper] and this is my financial report [shows us another document]

Y: Same question

AM: i reported my income to the HEC, land, my house in tagamu and my flat which i will return too after office. Time will come to say i have to show everyone this is my income and people has to know after 4 years .. My health is fine hamdullelah i wanted this bench to be wood but I can give a report about this .. i'd like to ask AF asked about the health situation of candidates ..this caused confusion and made some candidate angry [AF answered and side discussion]

Y:

AF: in the first round AM appeared as if he was an opponent to mubarak despite being him and his men were not more that secertary to the president .. egypt's role in africa decreased, arab role as well.. i want to hear one sentence that AM said in opposition to mubarak's regime

AM: I will start with what the morshed el 3am of MB said about me .. he appreciated my work and the public support is due to this .. my disagreement between me and the head of state was something that was mentioned by lots of people .. as for the role of egypt in africa this isn't true ask people we entered the COMESA during my time and for the relationship with the arab world it was a special relationship at that time .. and it was a strong when i was minister including the islamic relationships as well .. i met the iranian foreign minister and these attacks are untrue.

Y: No question by AM .. 1 minute

AM: I know that AF said yes to consitutinoal amendments .. i don't understand when he joined the revoltuion when all the revolutionary forces said no and those who understand what those ammendments were about ... i know that dr AF participated in founding the jamaa3a islamia which killed around 1000 people .. how is he living with this

AF: the majority of people said yes .. he wasn't living here .. 70% said yes and we shouldn't disrespect the choice of the majority .. this is the old mentality .. the majority may say something against my position but i have to respect that this is the democracy we are heading to .. as for establishing the islamic movement in 70s and i am proud of it .. is a peaceful till now movement .. the violence was mubarak's regime that AM was part of it as for those who left the movement and committed violence they are resposible for themselves.

Y: would you appoint those who worked with mubarak in any position?

AF: those who worked with mubarak are two types .. those who were close to him like ministres, head of parliament .. were people who defended this regime and i won't allow for this to happen as for the technocrates who worked in instutions these are honorable egyptians who served the country and weren't known of supporting the regime and there is no evidence against them .. they weren't the regime's men and weren't the machinery of that regime but htye served the state .. we can benefit from them. We can't say those who are close to mubarak are similar to those who weren't our terms should be accurate.

AM: Certainly not the group that fell in 11 feb .. those accused and those suspected are certainly not an option .. but hte measure has to be the expertise and efficiency is the key.. we paid the price in the past of broad exclusion .. so if he is a technocrat or a politican .. the door isn't closed but has rules and these rules are according to the jan 25 revolution

Y: What's your plan to bring back security and will protect gen. freedoms

AF: Interior ministry needs restructuring .. some generals who are close to mubarak didn't do their job .. there are some honorables there who ware doing their job .. in the first 3 (or 6) month we have a plan to restructure it including beaurcratic processes .. we will do this by improving pay, health care including, we need to graduate more police officers from the academy .. human rights has to be taught to police officers so the human dignity is respected .. the police station has to be a safe place and not fearful

AM: we have to seperate between restructuring and .. police is something very critical and we have to deal with this in the first 100 days .. i see AF using my terms like 100 days and 2nd republic... ministr of interior is starting to control the situation but more needs to be done .. the president has to give clear orders that the police servce the public .. we have to rehabilitate police stations .. there are several ones that were burnt .. the syllabuses of the police academy has to include human rights.

Y: how are you going to deal with the legal status of the MB and the establishing religious based parties and how wil you protect minorities and freedoms ..

AF: MB will don't have any sepcial situation and has to function as any NGO and no one has to function outside the law. As for the religious parties .. i am against this regarding hte membership should be open for all as for parties that respect the religious framework (marge3ya) i respect that .. as for the minorities there are no minirities i am against this term .. no descrimination and all citizens are equal infront of the law.

AM: The MB isn't banned but not yet religious .. it's an important group and they can easily become legal. as for the religious parties the general principles of the thought is islamic that is fine but if its specific goals are religious and may cause a rift between the people of egypt .. the religious parties need clarification .. we are in a process of rebuilding and reshaping egypt. [super vague answer]

Y:

AF: Still AM wants to stand agaisnt the majority of people .. when he accuses FJP and noor of being religious parties .. is he going to start a war against them when he becomes president? There is the wasat party as well the majority chose parties with a religious background but not religious parties. (he clarifies his concept of religious party being one restricted to members)

AM: reads a quote from sheikh sharawy .. "i am a muslim before being a member of any religious party" he identified the danger of religious parties .. I will sit down and talk with FJP but for religious parties this is something else .. there are others who want to establish religious parties that will divide the country .. the decision is for the votes in the end but the point i am talking about is religious parties that have a clearly religious stance.. we want the country to progress but spending time in certain limits and constraints this is what i am talking about

Y:

AM: I noticed confusion by AF on foreign policy in addition to other contradiction .. i wasn't the foreign minister of egypt when the war on iraq started and i condemned it .. i was in the arab league and called all the leaders to discussion .. this is injustice to my history

AF: when i talked about the weak role of the foreign ministry and arab league .. what were the results when 1 million iraqis died and all the arab countries stood by and watched .. what were the results of those african tours .. in the end we have problems with nile basin countries ..we are now isolate from africa due mubarak's weak foreign minister .. if i was in this position i would have resigned immediately .. sadat sold the nation in camp david .. mohamed ibrahinm kamel resigned .. these are the positions that one should takes .. the results are disappointing.

01:00

Second part

Y: Relationship with scaf, virginity checks, relationship with saudi and iran and israel.

Y: Enumerate your priorities for Egypt's Renaissance

AF: our first 100 days return of state's prestige
then health care and research .. we will raise education budget from 7% to 25% we need good education we will revise syllabuses, the entire education process .. half of the budget will be for the teacher salaries .. we have to pay attention to the technical education .. no country can stand up on its legs without this .. good education will improve unemployement.

AM: In the first 100 dyas according to my program as you mentioned the education .. which is the project of the future .. we have to multiply the spending on that once twice and thrice .. i am aginst the pathcing of the education program .. we will have to focus on the quality and new education methods .. compusory educaiton quality should be improved, tehcnical education should be technological and universities should be independent.

health , health insurance universal and hospitals

Y: As becoming the head of military

AF: I don't mind appointing a civilian minstre of defence but in the current sitution which isn't very stable i it has to be for a military man .. these instutions are the tools of the state and the head of state if our army is the strongest in the nation from training and equipment, not because we are not going into war.. but because we can't build a state without defence. Sources of arms shouldn't be from one country we have to have lots of sources to arms and the military industry should improve.

Y: Are you going to appoint a new minister of defence

AM: Yes, my right in democracy to appoint and select a defence minstre this is a clear position .. being civilian or not this not the issue now .. we have to help the army improve its training and these issues are what we are going to address in the national defence council that i will create .. as for the investment of the armed forces, this isn't an exception, the army needs to have it's sufficient resources but there has to be discussions over this sensitive matters and the boundries for such investments.

Y: How are you going to deal wtih testimonies of virginity checks and torture

AF: No country that wants to protect the dignity and rights of people with an instution that is above the law ..all those who do wrong should be dealt with according to the law .. as for what the MP is said to have done regarding the women is something that has to be investigated. Egyptian women's dignity should be respected they took part in wars against zionists and they are my sister, mother and daughter and we have to respect their dignity .. i ask every daughter who had this done to her to file a complaint immediatly .. all citizens should be equal under the law .. the head of state and the citizen

Y: How are you going to deal wtih testimonies of virginity checks and torture

AM: This came from a few who alleged this .. so this needs investigations and checks .. but from principle the dignity of women has to be respected and her role is something that should be respected they are 50% of the society an their role should never be limited. The role of women has decreased the society that corners and limits the role of women is .. .. as for the complaints has to take place now

Y: Rebuttal

AF: AM said in newspaper that unemployment problem is because of .. [ahh missed that] that he can solve problems with phone calls.

AM: Again dr AF reads a line and misses another .. as the arab league head i wouldn't talk of exporting the labourers .. it's impossible that someone like me would say something like that .. the economy won't improve unless the citizen feels such improvement we have to open and seucre investments .. we have to open the market .. it's not only us .. everyone is doing it .. we need to graduate a generation that is empowered and can compete in the world and arab market .. we are in a competetion with teh outside

Y: rebuttal oppurtutinity for AM

AM: i can deal with the nile water issues .. i am astonished that AF would say that i can only solve problems with phone calls

AF: After addis-ababa assassination attempt (mubarak) .. did AM have a role in exporting gas to israel .. did he agree on NATO to enter libya.. as a citizen i am afraid to vote to a candidate who supported mubarak's policies .. in a time when we as doctors went to gaza to help people and get besieged and the arab league did nothing and didn't provide us with the security during the gaza war .. where is this work on the ground

Y: How would you have dealt with the detained egyptian in Saudi and how would you have dealt with NGO case

AF: Dignity of Egyptian citizen has to be restricted this is the role of the diplomatic missions .. if egyptians are in problem abroad they have to help .. such as our son ahmed gizawy .. if he made wrong he has to be punished according to the laws of that country but the dignity has to be respected and during mubarak non of the embassies did this role and they have to start doing it. As for the NGO case .. this was disrespectful for Egypt .. the executive shouldn't have been involved they shouldn't have been referred to judiciary if they would have going to interfere.. if they did wrong they should be punished.

Y: same question

AM: My position towards egyptians abroad is well known and in my reign the diplomatic missions improved their support and there are lots of cases taht we have dealt with .. some i have been invloved personally .. what AF is saying is innaccurate and is an attack on egypts' diplomacy .. there are lots of cases we have helped.. he speaks generally without evidence .. the gas deal i was out of the MOFA 4 years before .. this is something that i have no relationship with .. do you read things in reverse?

Y: Israel

AF: Israel is an enemy, built on occupation owns 200 nuclear war head .. doesn't respect international decisions .. attacks religious symbols .. the majority of egyptians are enemies of the state of israel .. the agreement with israel should be revised that which is against egypt's interests should be removed immediately and that's in our interest should stay.. Our relationship wtih iran is based on our own independence and doesn't follow anyone .. i am not against relationship with iran provided they don't prosetlyze shia faith in egypt and likewise we shouldn't try to spread sunni faith there

Y: Israel and your position if they attack iran

AM: Yes i am going to revise the syntax of the agreements and tehre will always be disagreement with palestine if our strategic position isn't ... when i say i am with palestine and i want its capital is jeurusalim this shouldn't upset the us admin and we discussed this with the us and these are very importatnt points .. as for security .. i am against a war with iran .. iran is an arab country! and we have to listen and talk .. this means we don't agree at all to attacking iran

Y: A citizen wants to go back from his work at the airport to his home in 45 minutes and wants to feed his family of 5 in 70 egp/ week

AF: we mentioned in our program the minimum wage and in no way a citizen can receive 70 EGP per week .. this is unacceptible .. second thing we have to help the civil society in helping the egyptian family in education etc.. when there is minimum wage the miserable poverty we see won't be there .. egypt is a rich country but stolen by mubarak and his cronies

Y: Same question

AM: no one can feed his family with 70 egp/week .. we have to deal prompty with this .. 1200 is the monthly minimum wage accordign to court we have to approach this gradually.. there are people who don't have one single pound .. a social support program .. quickly should be implemented and can only be treated with pensions.

Y: Rebuttal part

AF: I want to ask AM do you consider Israel an enemy within the respect of threatening our national security, it's ownership of nuclear weapons and its role in destabilising the region? When asked he didn't answer the question.

AM: First I answered this question. What is israel and is it a country that practices hostile practices, yet it does and we have lots of disagreements .. most of our people considers it an enemy but the responsiblity of the president is to deal with such things responsibly and not run after hot headed slogans. He has to establish evidence and not talk like that .. The nato and libya this was a decision that came after the arab league decision and i objected to .. he again reads a line and leave another.

Y: AM rebuttle in one minute

AM: Lack of accuracy is apparent in AF talk .. a topic such as africa .. saying that after assasination attempt we did no work on africa is not true we joined several things .. including COMESA. it's true there was deterioration in relationship with africa but i worked against this and we joined several agreements.

AF: He still insistst that our relationship with africa deteriorated in the past 10 years only .. but it has been going on from before that.. our entry to COMESA wasn't for our own benefit but for the COMESA .. the egyptian regime with it's symobls such as AM left a gaping hole with our relationship both political and economic with africa .. talk and slogans do nothing were is the reality on the ground .. what about the nile water agreement .. before then non dared to discuss it .. where is our relationship with africa?

AF: STrange things we heared today was his oppsition to mubarak's regime and i want to listen how many times was he detained and tortured during mubarak's time?

AM: (outbidding mozayda) is apparent in what he says.. this is what others do too. foreign minister was managing the policies that the entire nation was supporting the morshed was supporting my policies. who fixed the relationship between syria and turkey? attacking MOFA and the benefits of the policies of MOFA is dissapointing and shows lots of bad intents from a presidential candidate.

AF: The relationships deteriorated because of mubarak's policies and he was part of it .. the syrian turkish relations was part of regeb tayep erdogan's work.

AM: regarding erdogan .. he isn't grasping the situation .. when erdogan said that if you didn't give me a word to speak he would withdraw and we had a very strong stance .. and he left because erdogan objected on not being given a word. Did I cause deterioration with africa in relationship? This isn't the facts you are changing history and repeating baseless accusations.

AM: I will read a part of your book, i am making you a service here. "We believe in the use of violence and it's necessity.." (time ended)

AF: This is not true, this isn't my book and this was a quote of some youths who supported violence but i stood against violence and we worked in entering the institutions like the student union etc.. the history of islamic movement has been peaceful except for a small group that was violent and now repented and established party .. building and development party and want to share in helping the nation peacefully. I was a politican and never a bureaucrat in mubarak's regime.

AM: Doctor said I was a beuarocrat and he was a politican, i was foreing minister a top politician job.. [reads from the book again about violence]

AF: I answered about the book.. As for women, the prophet talked highly of women and respected her roles and the egyptian women's role was marginalised because of false claims that says it's islamic .. a proof for this was the role of the women in the islamic opposition groups .. we don't do window dressing participation of woemn and empowerment like what mubarak used to do .. the efforts of women should be highly appreciated in the university and hosipatl and till now her role is marginalized.

Y: We thank both of you .. the draw says the final words should start with AM

AM: We saw today a weird scene of discrapency between what has been said which was very nice but what is in the book was very different, where is the candidate? will he return to his position in the book? What is going on is something that is going to affect egypt's position and future .. the conflicts between the ideas is disappointing and we have to warn egyptians.

AF: I will speak to all egyptians .. we have to not allow anyone to send us back to the corrupt regime ,, we need people who lived this revolution who can carry this nation and build it with dropping debts of farmers and leadership that can combat unemployment and leadership that is a face of the new republic .. this is what the ballot box is going to say .. someone who will protect the traditions and values and independence of the egyptian .. would bring health care and education .. egypt is a strong country we have to stand together in unity and against those who wnat to divide us in islmaists and librals.

Youssri: Thank you